Bob & Ann Maree Goudzwaard discuss the topic of identity with Deepak Reju, Pastor of Biblical Counseling and Families at Capitol Hill Baptist Church in Washington, DC. Deepak is one of our plenary speakers at the 2019 Institute “Identity Crisis” in June.
Bob & Ann Maree Goudzwaard discuss academics and counseling with Greg Gifford, a pastor and assistant professor of Biblical Counseling at The Master’s University.
Craig Marshall and Ann Maree Goudzwaard talk with Curtis Solomon about his work as the director of the Biblical Counseling Coalition.
Craig Marshall talks with Pastor Zack Eswine about the wisdom literature and how these underused texts can inform our counseling and illuminate how Jesus spoke to suffering people.
Craig Marshall talks with Pastor Scott Mehl what he has learned doing biblical counseling through church planting. How can we practice discipleship well and create meaningful relationships?
This idea of training future ministers, training people who are interested in ministry, this isn’t a new one for you, right? This has been part and parcel of your whole ministry experience. I’m wondering if you both could tell us just a little bit about how you’ve sought to care for men and women who are interested in pursuing ministry together. How was that unfolded in your years together? Caroline, why don’t you tell me some about how you sought to do that at least?
Caroline Newheiser :
Jim started training people in ministry when we were living in Saudi Arabia and we had to open up many house churches which didn’t have teachers so he developed a program there which is a stepping stone to what he’s doing now. Through the years we’ve had the intern program here at Grace Bible and we’ve even had men live with us, students live with us off and on different times. God has equipped us I think for this step.
Caroline has made a lot of effort both in terms of hospitality and having some cases. I think back to having single Mike Kruger, Greg Welty, these guys are now seminary professors. Many people are now missionaries and pastors but having them or having them and their wives into our home, she’s been especially in recent years making some delivered efforts to mentor the seminary students’ wives and prepare them for what it is going to be like one day.
Good, so we can really step back and check our hearts. What are some ways that you think, instead of calling down fire on someone, what are ways that we think people need to be punished and we often carry that out?
In general, when people wrong us, our gut reaction is to respond in judgement or tempted to respond in anger. That can be saying hurtful words, expressed in that way. It could be ignoring them or doing other unkind things. We become tempted to really detach ourselves from the gospel, somewhat as these disciples did. What we need to remember is both God’s grace to us and also our calling to be messengers of mercy, which was at that time the calling for those disciples. Furthermore, as we are messengers of mercy, I often think of Romans 2:4, that it’s the kindness of God that leads us to repentance. If our hope is when we see evildoers and even when they do evil to us, it’s God’s grace and God’s kindness being reflected through us that, or the means by which God most likely will bring them to repentance rather than our judgmental anger.
This seems to intersect for me with something we hear a lot in marriage counselling. If a spouse is sinning, a lot of times the other spouse thinks it’s their job, almost to call down fire on that spouse, to make them pay for the wrongs that are being done to help them see the error of their ways. How do we change the heart of that spouse so that they’re not making the same sin here as the disciples?
I’m about to start crying again. I did cry a few times when I watched your observation videos.
There were pieces of it where I cried, not when Danielle was crying but I just cried at the bitterness of my heart because I knew that hardness was real and it’s sad to watch. It makes me pray for my girls very hard on a daily basis that we can have open relationship to talk. I would hate for them to have that hardness but I also trust that if that’s what the Lord takes them through whichever way that maybe they’re going to have their own struggles and that the Lord uses that for his glory so I’ll let him use whatever he wants to use. That hard heart is really ugly.
From that video I will say Caroline and I have gotten very close and that’s been a huge blessing that was something that was unexpected. She was always just the pastor’s wife and you say hello to them in the hall and they know your name because they know everyone’s name. That was a real sweet blessing that came from it is that we got to be much closer.
Honestly I think that’s a really experience that I think real counselees find as well is that when they do open up to someone rather than pushing someone away, they gain a relationship or friendship.
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You don’t have to have a counseling center to be effective in your community. In fact, you know, I would argue from scripture that it’s you know, as you go you’re preaching the gospel so you know, the church is gathering together to be equipped, to be encouraged, and then we disperse, right? We go to our work places, we go to our schools, we go to our neighborhoods. That one-on-one ministry, where now we have some equipping to be able to address some of those life issues, you know I think as a pastor I’m thinking I want the average person at our church to be able to you know, talking to their neighbor next door that evening and a life issue comes up. You know, a teenager that’s addicted to something, or you know, they’re having marriage problems. I would hope that a believer at that point wouldn’t say, “Well hey, let’s go to our community counseling ministry,” although they could do that, but that they would engage them wisely and in a loving way from the scriptures to give them gospel hope in that moment.